Optimising Low-Traffic Websites: Practical CRO Tips from Usman Qureshi

[00:00:00] Amanda Webb: Welcome to that analytics podcast. I am here with Usman Qureshi who gave an amazing, a really actually good talk on Analytics Day 2024. If you haven’t watched that back, definitely one to catch up with. And I wanted to bring him in today to talk to you as small businesses. Sometimes we hear terms like CRO and UX and we’re like, Oh, that sounds interesting. But a lot of the techniques that we learn are. For large businesses, they’re not really For small businesses that have low traffic, but before we start talking about that. I want to know more about you I want to know more about you. I want to know Why did you get into marketing? What was that? How did you get there?

Usman Qureshi: All right. Thanks for having me Amanda again It’s good to be here talking to you live again. And Probably, hopefully, be able to help small businesses, because everything is about big businesses anyways. So, I used to work in telesales, which I kind of hated to be honest, but that

[00:01:00] Usman Qureshi: just started getting going, you know, it’s about understanding people and consumers and what they need and how we talk to them and then just marketing popped up in my mind because I studied accounting and finance, so never did marketing stuff. But a good start for a data driven marketer. So, but I never thought I would be a data driven marketer at that point, to be very honest, because I was not super, super fan of numbers, surprisingly. So, I, I went into digital marketing. I started at social media marketing, then I did some influencer marketing, then I did some paid marketing. I mean, I liked all of it. But there were some aspects that I just couldn’t like too much. So it helped me understand what is digital marketing for the most part, SEO and whatnot. It was all rage back in the day. So I wanted to focus on analytics cause I thought that this is an area that really speaks to me. And

[00:02:00] Usman Qureshi: then I I started working with an agency where there was CRO and then there was analytics. I’m like, okay, cool What is CRO? Because we’re talking about 2019 and CRO wasn’t too big of a thing at least for me at that point So I started learning CRO and those guys were like really big at that time as well, I think so I learned quite a lot from there and realized that these two are the areas Yes, you look kind of like marry them together you get a lot of good results together So, there it is. Then I started working in CRO plus analytics, so I do analytics implementations, but I also do CRO stuff as well on the side because I think they go hand in hand. If you don’t have good tracking, if you don’t have good data, you can’t make good decisions that are important for CRO. So it kind of like feeds into each other quite a lot in that sense. Pre test analysis, post test analysis, you need analytics.

Amanda Webb: Yeah, absolutely. I think you’re right. You know, once you start doing one, you want to know the other.

[00:03:00] Amanda Webb: But just for anyone who’s listening and is baffled, what is, what are we talking about when we say CRO? I threw lots of things out at the beginning. What is CRO?

Usman Qureshi: Yeah, CRO, a lot of people on LinkedIn talk about its name, what it is and what it’s not. Some people call it CROw. I don’t know, CRO just sticks with me. It’s Simply means conversion rate optimization. If we just simply take out the CRO bit, it is just optimization. And the idea is that you can always do better than yesterday. So that’s it. You’re just optimizing and perhaps what we’re going to focus on today, as you said, is the small businesses with low traffic and everything, everyone thinks that CRO is A B testing only. So. Yeah, you might have low traffic, but it’s not only A B testing, there are a lot of other aspects to it that we’re going to talk about some of it. It’s a big part of it. A B testing is a big part of CRO, but it’s not everything.

Amanda Webb: Why is it challenging for low traffic

[00:04:00] Amanda Webb: websites? Surely we can just do A B testing. It’s fine.

Usman Qureshi: Yeah, we can do, we can do whatever we want, really. It’s not, it’s just, we might not get the results we want to. So without getting too much technical, I think it’s a very good question. Why? Why should we not do it for low traffic websites? But to put it as simply as we can without getting too technical The lower the traffic the longer you’d have to run the tests to get reliable results. So that means the longer you run your test There’s chance of that. They will be impacted by external factors like I don’t know technical issues holidays fails campaign launches and even your visitors arriving by different devices And so they exit the test, they enter again, delete their cookies, enter again, . So overall what they’re doing is potentially sample pollution sort of thing And again too long to run a test so is it even viable at that point for you to keep running for months or

[00:05:00] Usman Qureshi: even I don’t know How long you’re you want to you can’t you have the I would say the hunger to keep running and running And eventually just call it whether it’s a win or a lose in that sense. It’s not very ideal for smaller Businesses or not like smaller businesses lower traffic websites run tests then but there are many other optimization techniques that you can still use That’s what we wanted to get into.

Amanda Webb: So firstly again, I always want to kind of just clarify in case there is someone listening I know I have very smart listeners, so you might not need this and you might be doing Amanda I know but what are we talking about when we talk about a test?

Usman Qureshi: When we talk about tests, we’re simply pitting one version against another and seeing if we change something in our treatment, which is the variation that is not live on the website, against control, that is your current version, and see how that works. For instance, a very simple example again, you have a

[00:06:00] Usman Qureshi: CTA button that says get started. But you want to change it to get a demo what effect that will have it’s a very very simple example I’m, just like giving an idea you want that CTA text change against what is in control Which is your current live version and see if changing that text has a text has an effect or not That’s what you’re really doing because you want to improve you want to optimize and do better than yesterday

Amanda Webb: great so we could do that And I say we because I have a low traffic website these days. I’ve gone from having a high traffic website to a low traffic website. So I could do that, but I’d probably need to run it for months, maybe longer than months in order to get enough data to make it statistical. So if that’s not a goer or if that’s something that I shouldn’t pay as much attention to, what can I do instead?

Usman Qureshi: You’re very right there. Yes, you can do it, but you’ll have to run it for months and it might not be as, fruitful as you might think in the end. So that’ll be quite frustrating and you might all together say, you know

[00:07:00] Usman Qureshi: what, I’m better off without this testing, thing but what you can do meanwhile is I always say like you keep things simple and you can start with heuristics And heuristics is simply you going on to the website and looking at different things Just to make sure your audience or your visitors are getting what they need. So Is your website or your USP clear enough it is being clearly communicated that is super important if You see a lot of those websites Data driven xyz We do this change we do that change, but it’s not very clear. It’s not speaking to me So then if it’s not very relevant to me, that’s the second point how relevant it is to the visitor if you’re searching about dog grooming But your website is about the page mentions about dog foods You’ll be like, you know what? This is not very relevant. You’ll just jump off quickly So it’s super important to be relevant like these are very simple things and

[00:08:00] Usman Qureshi: how can you be relevant? So whatever you’re promising whatever the channel you’re using to bring in people to your website that message Is same as what’s on your website? It’s very relevant. So it’s a blow if I see an ad or a post on your social or any, you know ad banner or whatever that says You buy xyz, but when I get your website completed something different like again dog food versus dog grooming I’ll be like either it’s a scam or i’m in the wrong place and I’ll jump off quickly People generally don’t stick around too long on your website. So yeah, you need to be relevant You need to be clear in what you’re communicating And your USP needs to be you know, like communicated very clearly. This is what you get from us This is how I can help you or we can help you. They don’t care about other things too much I don’t care about other things too much. When I go on a website, or an app, or whatever I want to buy, I want to see what is it going to do for me. So, that is super

[00:09:00] Usman Qureshi: important. So then you’re relevant, you’re clear what you can do for them, and you are communicating your value. So, within your Clarity, there’s a third point. The value that you’re providing is being communicated Okay, so Be relevant

Amanda Webb: I think I feel like I needed you like seven or eight years ago when I was getting a lot of traffic to my website But my content wasn’t relevant and that content is still on my website because I find it really hard to get rid of Nobody visits it anymore though. It’s fallen out of the seo loop So I was driving lots of people to my website for search terms like how to tweet longer than 140 characters So irrelevant people still visit that i’m like hello, it’s not even called a tweet. You can tweet lots of characters. I don’t even know how many it’s like So that was going in obviously none of those people were buying from me I was offering social media strategy then but that wasn’t bringing in the right so I feel like I needed you then So it’s not just your your main pages and running an advert saying here’s my social media services and it’s something completely different

[00:10:00] Amanda Webb: It’s even your content I’m guessing

Usman Qureshi: Indeed because you’re you sending out a message overall with your content. And again, like you need to, if you don’t have traffic, this becomes even more important. It’s not like you do this only because you have low traffic. This is again, part of the research that you would do if you were to run A B tests. But as of now you have what you have and you work with that. And so if I come on your website, Does it look standardized? Is it dodgy or what not? Because people are used to conventional designs. If you’re being too fancy or too unconventional, trying to differentiate yourself from competitors or others out there, that can actually backfire. Wow. Yeah, because I’m like, oh, this is a weird website. I don’t know where to look for what I want to. I mean, it’s very nice and all that with all the aesthetics. But it’s not that helpful to me. So what you’re doing is you’re essentially creating friction. And friction is

[00:11:00] Usman Qureshi: what? You’re just creating more roadblocks. And your goal should be to make it so easy for the visitors on your website to find what they want that they don’t have to think too much. There’s a fancy term for it. It’s called cognitive load. So if you put too much cognitive load, that is the user has to think what they have to do. They’ll probably jump.

Amanda Webb: Okay. I’ve seen websites like that, but I’m figuring, how do we know it? Because as soon as you say that, I worry. I know I do testing, wait, it’s not exactly testing. I do stuff on my website to make sure that it’s not happening. Now, I never used to. How do we know? Because when we look at our own website, particularly small businesses. They probably plowed a lot of time and energy working with someone to make it look the way they do. How do they know if in fact it isn’t working properly? If people can’t find their way around, how do they know if they have CROssed the line between making themselves interesting and differentiating themselves to making themselves un-user friendly?

Usman Qureshi: That is a very

[00:12:00] Usman Qureshi: interesting question. And I’m just thinking about while you’re saying it, okay, how do you know that? Cause you need to dig deeper for that. You need to understand further what users are doing on your website. And then we talked about, about the heuristics. And before I go further, I would just put one more point here is that if you have any social proof, then, and social proof is what? Testimonials, reviews, any case studies that you’ve worked on yourself or with someone else, And collaboration with someone else or any social media mentions where people are like, oh this person is great or this product is great You can leverage that on your website as well. Again, it creates more trust. You’re not going to jump easily and then stuff like that and if the reviews and things speak to them in a common language rather than very corporate Salesy language then they’ll be like, okay, this is this seems genuine and something i’m looking for so people can feel that this is more relevant Okay, so the next question is How do I know when people CROss that line and go into like, I don’t know what am I doing right or

[00:13:00] Usman Qureshi: not? And this is really basic, but super important. Whether you run A B tests or not, again, understanding your customers. There’s several ways to do that. Perhaps one of the starting points could be, any emails that you get. Or any, chat service you might have or not on the website and you can do that chat mining or email mining as we call it you get around 100 to 200 200 responses are very good Like emails and then check what are their concerns and you will sometimes see i’m not looking i’m not getting what i’m looking for It’s so hard to find xyz on your website. It’s frustrating etc, etc. And that’s a very good sign. You can also install tools that have heatmaps session recordings and click maps. There’s a very good tool that I’m a fan of now. It’s called Microsoft Clarity and it’s free. So you don’t even have to pay for that. And, and you get a lot of heat maps and things like that. And I get it. You still need a

[00:14:00] Usman Qureshi: lot of, big sample size for heat maps and things like that. Like that, because again, there, you can’t just say 10 people clicked on this. There might be something wrong with it. That’s not enough, right? You might need quite a lot of big sample size, but it gives you an idea. It points you in certain direction. And if there are session recordings. Then you can watch them and see, okay, what are users doing when they are on the website? Are they CROssing the line that I have in my mind what I thought they should be doing there? But they’re doing something completely different or they’re missing the target altogether. That’s a very good starting point I think I would start with session recordings and heat maps and definitely install these free tools that you have available Leverage them as much as you can and try to understand what the user users is doing Are doing on your website Once you get to know what their flow is, then you can dig further deeper. If you have salespeople or even a one, a one person in customer service, or maybe you are as of now yourself doing customer service in a

[00:15:00] Usman Qureshi: small business, just look at what are their messages and if they’re frustration or something good, like this was very good about your site. And you can again use those things in your messaging on your website. So not only now do you know what the customers are doing on your website, whether they’re CROssing that line or not, but now you’re combining those insights and creating kind of a synergy that, okay, I’m getting insights and we can do, use these insights to push or make our content more clear and value communication is much, much easier then.

Amanda Webb: Great. And I’m a big fan of Clarity. And I have to say those, I don’t use the heat map so much. I don’t have enough traffic really to make it interesting. But the session recordings are gold because I’ve never fixed my website as fast as when I saw people clicking on the wrong thing. It’s like It’s something you must have intended, right? And and then when you see they’re clicking on

[00:16:00] Amanda Webb: something a little different even something watching is a little bit frustrating because like oh this is this must be frustrating for the user as well.

Usman Qureshi: Yeah. And as you say, and again, it’s free It’s why not have it, you know

Amanda Webb: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a, it’s a great tool. I’m going to roll it back a little bit and I might be throwing you a curveball question, but we were talking about, you know, that whole thing about yes, you’re trying to differentiate yourself and stand out and be quirky, but unless our website has certain things. It’s not going to work. It’s a certain like non negotiables, like your contact. For me, the contact should always be the last one on the right hand side of my menu, but menus have changed since I had that rule. You know, we’ve got hamburger menus and all sorts. Are there any specific rules we should stick to? Unless we find out it’s completely not working.

Usman Qureshi: I think this is a little, it is a difficult question because people talk about best practices, but my best, best practices might not be best for you. And again, it depends on the industry and the, the

[00:17:00] Usman Qureshi: business type. If contact information is super important, then it should be, as you said, top right corner or not. It should be very easy to access. And I shouldn’t work too hard to get to you But whatever that thing is CTA as you might want to call it or action that I want to take That should be very simple and easy for me to take and if the convention is that it’s on the top right corner When you go in the footer, there’s an email address then it should be there because if it’s not i’m like I’m working hard now. Again, there’s more work for my brain to do. Humans are lazy. I am lazier than most people. I’ll be like, you know, I can’t do it right now. So there is no set standard per se, but again, it’s kind of like, oxymoron, I guess at this point, but you should still be a little more standardized in how your navigation works rather than being too quirky or, you know, like different than what there is out there is. I sometimes see these agency websites. They’re very

[00:18:00] Usman Qureshi: artsy, but I cannot find information that I’m looking for, and you keep sCROlling down and there’s all kind of amazing media stuff coming in front of your eyes, and it’s very colorful, and it does captivate me, but it’s, I’m like, getting frustrated after a few seconds, like, where do I find this information that I’m looking for? So if it’s your content, like blog, or your podcasts, or things like that, they should be very easily accessible. And I feel like as long as, generally that’s my personal opinion again, if you keep things simple, it’s simple for the users as well. If you get too complicated, it’ll be quite complicated for them as well, because you understand your product, your website, they don’t.

Amanda Webb: Yeah. And I do think that even some big websites from big brands that we all know make a lot of assumptions. So I’m just thinking back to like you were talking about, is your message clear on your website? That’s the number one thing we should really be thinking about. And so often small websites, big websites, you’ll go to a website and it doesn’t tell you what they do.

[00:19:00] Amanda Webb: I think that’s my biggest frustration when I ever come to a website. I’m like, is it even doing the thing that I want to buy? Is that actually what it’s doing? I can’t tell. That’s, that’s huge, right?

Usman Qureshi: Indeed. Cause let’s just say taking example of dog food. You’re someone who’s looking for organics, ingredients, and things like that, and your USP clearly says that we produce this dog food from XYZ ingredients, vetted by these professionals, very clearly communicated what you do, how you do it, in one line, probably. But if you say, best dog food in the whole of region, and like by XYZ scientists, I don’t know, because everyone uses that term now. How do I trust you? Or even best dog nutrition, not even mentioning the word food, you know, that’s what comes up.

Amanda Webb: Yeah, exactly. What nutrition is best? How do you know it’s best for my dog?

Usman Qureshi: Yeah. Or is this a supplement? Is this, it’s like, yeah,

Amanda Webb: I don’t have dogs, I have cats, we should be talking about cats, but they,

[00:20:00] Amanda Webb: I totally get that. That’s such a great example of the sort of things that we do see. I suppose as a marketer, I want a template. I want you to go. No, this is, you need to have your contact button here. You need to have your email here. This is where you need to say, but obviously it’s not that easy, right?

Usman Qureshi: It’s not. And I think sometimes people say your competitors are your, they can be very, very good teachers as well. Just look at their website, what they’re doing. Because if you’re attracting similar kind of CROwd, Then you might want to take or borrow some of that not 100 percent of all of that because again There are your competitors and get their product or messaging and things could be different than how they deal with their audiences You can learn something and then optimize it as we say as for what your audience might want or what you want to push again, these could be like simple things, messaging, they have done certain way and you say, okay, this is something I can do better so you can improve on that. You don’t have traffic, too much traffic test, but you

[00:21:00] Usman Qureshi: can improve on your messaging. At least be as clear as you can. And as I said, if you look at your chats, emails, or social media inboxes, you will find, customer language words that are being used by them. If you use the same language. Then you’re not very salesy, pushy, or, or corporatesy in that sense. You don’t come off as someone who’s trying too hard, you’re just being very genuine and people like that.

Amanda Webb: And I’m guessing if you don’t, because you were talking about having a hundred email messages, I’m kind of going, I don’t think I’ve had a hundred email messages. I guess what you could do is like interview samples of your customers, not like surveys, because I think surveys, people just tend to type something into a box, but actually having like a quick call with someone and writing down the language they use can really work too.

Usman Qureshi: That’s a very good idea and a very good solution. Yes, you could even It’s very hard to find people who almost purchased your product or service and then didn’t but if you could They would give you a very very

[00:22:00] Usman Qureshi: gold kind of insight here and there that you’d be like, wow Because the question that you want to know answer is what stopped you from buying this? Or, you know, getting the service. They might tell you better than someone who’s already done it. But it’s not like someone who’s already done it cannot give you any, you know, insight. You can ask them, what made you choose this product? Or, again, you have to incentivize them. I mean, if someone emails me and says, Unless it’s the government or public service that they want to improve I won’t do a free survey or free interview or things like that So you might have to incentivize them, but it’s worth it I think if you really are serious about it optimization when we say Then it’s a very good idea to get that information. Okay, what made you purchase this product or service? What were your motivations? and what were your fears doubts or uncertainties in your mind while you’re on the website or making this purchase, but then you get those insights and you answer or more like

[00:23:00] Usman Qureshi: address them on your site through your content. Through your messaging and overall layout of the website.

Amanda Webb: Great. So we’ve got, we could try A B testing, but it will take a long time and the data is going to get polluted because it takes a long time. We’ve got, looking at your messaging, making sure that you’re very clear about what you do, making sure it matches all your messaging aCROss your marketing. So when people get there, they’re not leaving because it doesn’t do what it says. I mentioned having the right blog content because I didn’t used to. I’d also kind of say that. A B testing wouldn’t have worked when I did have a lot of traffic, right? Because none of that traffic was doing anything except for reading the useless blog posts. So it’s not all about having high traffic. What else did we talk? We talked about like layouts and making sure it works, using Clarity. How do we know if all this stuff is actually working? If we’re not, we can’t do the good A B testing where we can actually go, Oh, my revenue rose by this much when I changed the text on this button, for

[00:24:00] Amanda Webb: example.

Usman Qureshi: Yeah, I think it’s very hard to then quantify it because a lot of this is qualitative stuff right there. And there’s another thing that we can do, throw into the mix. Because you can throw into the mix a lot of things, like user testing. What user testing is, is really you creating a broad task or a very specific task. And there are five or three people, a certain number of people who will go on your website. You should not guide them or give any opinion and then that is recorded and you see how they achieve that task What are the roadblocks they hit? What do they find easier and how long it takes them? So again, you can do optimization there without the traffic that you need and it can be a little expensive because you have to pay those people who are testing and sometimes these people there are people who are only doing user tests because it pays them so they might not be your exact audience But there’s always, you know, pros and cons. However, the question that I’m now coming

[00:25:00] Usman Qureshi: again back to is, how do we know if it’s working or not? There is, it’s very hard to tell right away that it’s working or not, but you should see at least some improvement in your key metric, or so to speak, now as Google calls it, key event conversions. Like at least there is some uptake compared to before. And as a low traffic website, maybe you didn’t even have enough sales or things like that. And your marketing and then your optimization strategy coming together has increased. It’ll be hard to pinpoint which one of this change has led to that increase in conversions because it could be also when you did not have any conversion and you’re just thawing out, there’s nothing to compare to. So at that point, you’re just doing the best you can. It’s hard to measure that effect of every change that you make, but hopefully you get to the point where you start getting enough traffic. And then, you know, probably you can do A B testing and you can pinpoint, I made this change, it resulted into this, X Y

[00:26:00] Usman Qureshi: Z numbers. So then you have everything quantified. Otherwise, it’s very hard to quantify. You cannot quantify what customers are saying about you, apart from the fact that you create themes out of those different emails or messages, and then say, X number of people are saying this, X number of people are saying this. But what impact It created on your website. It’s very hard to know

Amanda Webb: But I guess if you’re doing all this stuff I was gonna say it can’t harm but you could go wrong. You could go wrong But if you are paying attention to your Clarity recordings if you’re paying attention to the messages you’re getting from customers If you’re paying attention to all that you are only going to be making it easier for people to buy from you So I suppose in the end if you do all that and you haven’t improved your sales There’s something else wrong is maybe it’s your product and not your website, you know, that’s what i’m thinking I mean, I mean you can go wrong, but probably if you pay attention to your customers, you’re not going wrong

Usman Qureshi: I agree with that Like if there’s a product fit and you’re not going

[00:27:00] Usman Qureshi: you understand your customers end of the day what they want And how am I providing them this thing what makes Why should they buy it from me or get the service from me and not the other person or the other company out there? And if you’re I think probably what I would do is rather than doing all of this together I would just do it in steps And then see which one is making more difference because again, it’s hard to quantify that at least it helps me separate these variables that I am doing working on because then I wouldn’t know at all what I’m doing maybe starting out I would Look at what the best practices for the industry and follow that And then take it from there and start improving from there because again You have to make sure that you understand the norm that the best practice might not be best for me or my audience or the product that I have here because it might have something that is unique or maybe not Or it’s too saturated at this point to use those best practices, maybe we need to do something different.

Amanda Webb: Yeah, great. That’s the next question, how different?

[00:28:00] Usman Qureshi: Because again, it can backfire very quickly and easily. Well, I love Sorry, go on.

Amanda Webb: I think a lot of it is just trial and error then. Yeah. I do love the idea of looking at your, I think when you first start out in business, when you look at your competitors websites, you assume they’re all doing everything brilliantly and you’re feeling intimidated. And part of you wants to copy what you’re doing, they’re doing because you think it’s right. Whereas now when I look at my competitors website, I look hyper critically at it because I do want to Find those gaps. Why? Why isn’t this working? So I’m not even going, I don’t even want to tell people who my competitors are to go into it, but I have seen websites and I’ll go, well, that’s weird because I don’t know who’s doing the work or I’ve never met the person behind the business or whatever. And that, that, that tells me that actually it’s really good when people can see me or get to know me. So that’s, that’s where I stand out from that particular competitor, if that makes sense. So I would say to anyone that’s starting out, you know, just be very critical about your

[00:29:00] Amanda Webb: competitors. Don’t assume that everything they’re doing is working.

Usman Qureshi: Indeed, because you don’t know that you don’t have that insight. All you see is what you see. There’s nothing else behind the screen in the data that backs it up, that it’s working or not. And when we talk about some data, I was also thinking, once you start out and, and maybe you’re not as big, but you’re still a small business. You still have analytics and we are. Generally, analytics people, I would obviously go to analytics and look at some at least basic data, like where my users are coming from, mostly what devices are they using, and is my website or content optimized, at least with that device type, because I’ve seen a lot of fast products that get users generally against not like all this true on desktop versus just mobile, but on e commerce, you would see a lot of it is on mobile. So you need to know that okay, this is where my customers are coming on

[00:30:00] Usman Qureshi: is my website because I have seen this mistake and personally being guilty of it as well You optimize your website one device and the other one is neglected altogether and you realize oh, wow I never even thought about it because as a small business you probably either don’t have a lot of resources or enough time to think about everything And you might miss this very small but crucial detail where your content or website is not optimized for another device And that can also, you know, cause a problem and it also gives you a lot of data in terms of pages So you might think this is my golden page, but a lot of traffic where people are going to certain page So then okay if that is happening, maybe you can do a lot more optimization there and generally you you should be focusing or starting as well if you’re doing optimization Your conversion points that is your product pages where people add products to the cart or your form pages where people fill in the forms because There’s a term we sometimes use called direct

[00:31:00] Usman Qureshi: conversions or indirect conversions as in direct conversions are happening right there on the page. I am on that page, I’m going to buy or fill a form or something. That could be your checkout flow, it could be your product page. And if the form is too long, too intrusive, I might just quit it. Even though your main page and every other product page was fabulous. Yeah, you need to focus on them because they’re your direct conversion, and then your indirect conversion pages could be your homepage, your category pages, blog content, things like that that are pushing people towards those pages. Are they important? Yes, all of them are together important, but you can focus more on your direct conversion pages as well. Because if I Let’s just say you have worked hard to get me there and I get there and I still don’t see what I want to see or if it’s very difficult for me to convert and you have made it very difficult, then all the hard work has gone down the drain.

Amanda Webb: Yeah. Yeah. So that makes sense. And I often think when I look at my website and I’ll

[00:32:00] Amanda Webb: see, obviously not the old blog content, But I’ll see a lot of people are visiting this page and like my about page for example, and I go, actually I need to do more with my about page to get people onto the surface pages so that they end up booking or buying or booking a call or whatever I want to do. So I think that’s a really important point. Are you ready? Oh, sorry, go on .

Usman Qureshi: Just one more thing. ’cause as you said, like they want to know about you so you see as a product or a service. If I’m looking at a company, I might not look at about page too much. But if I’m looking at about, you know, at a person who’s providing certain service, I want to know about them. So that about us page should contain important information of who they are, what they’ve done. And if I want to connect with them directly, even on pages like LinkedIn, because they provide certain services where they might want to see, okay, how active this person is on LinkedIn as well, because they can see your content there. And they’ll be like, okay, this person is legit. They have content here as well. You know what? I should just get in touch with them. And yeah, that’s, that’s what I was going to say.

[00:33:00] Usman Qureshi: Your product, your service can really define what pages are super important as well.

Amanda Webb: Yeah. And every time I mentioned it, I feel guilty. I need to go and look at my about page again, cause I know second most from, from the homepage, it is the second most visited page on my site. So it’s like, obviously I suppose before people buy, they want to know about me cause I’m a solopreneur, you know, they’re going to be dealing with me. Right. I’ve got time for my quick fire questions. So sorry, I almost interrupt you. Lots of great advice there, which I know, like I say, now I’m feeling I need to go and fix some things on my website, but okay. Data, data, or data.

Usman Qureshi: It’s my second language. I go with data and data sometimes, but data has stick with me. Data.

Amanda Webb: You know, for me, I think it’s Star Trek, even though that’s what I would say. I’m data first, but sometimes I slip into data. No data. I got confused. Okay. When you see a cookie banner, do you dunk or

[00:34:00] Amanda Webb: delete? Cookie banner.

Usman Qureshi: What was, I would say dunk.

Amanda Webb: Yeah. Yeah. I think most marketers do, right? Kind of like, we feel for the marketer on the other end of the banner and go, yeah, you can watch what I’m doing. Okay. And thirdly, AI, yay or nay?

Usman Qureshi: Yay, but you still need to put in your effort. Definitely yay. Definitely yay.

Amanda Webb: Yeah. It’s like you do have to put in your effort, but I’m not sure how I can live without it now. It’s that quickly. It kind of takes over our lives. Right. Okay. Tell us a little bit more about what you do and where we can find you online.

Usman Qureshi: Right, so I currently, as I mentioned, I am mostly doing CRO and analytics stuff, so I do CRO audits. Helping with test planning analysis overall CRO project management as well And as you might have seen it’s not just the companies that have a lot of traffic It could be low traffic and you could still gain Insights and you could do qualitative projects or research

[00:35:00] Usman Qureshi: projects and get you insights inside and apart from that obviously analytics implementation dashboards big query analysis and things like that. That is what I do. This is all this is my bread and butter And you can find me on LinkedIn. That’s where I’m generally quite active. And when I say active, I mean, I’ll respond quickly, not posting too much because I recently become dad. It’s three months. I’ve not been able to sleep enough. So there’s not a lot of LinkedIn for me. But yeah, you can also reach me on my website that is dataterminus.com and every time you might say my website’s name you go like dataterminus or dataterminus, but that’s up to you.

Amanda Webb: Dataterminus. com, great stuff. And yeah, congratulations. I remember the baby came just before analytics day, so.

Usman Qureshi: Indeed. Yeah.

Amanda Webb: Okay. That’s great. So get in touch with you if you want, there’s

[00:36:00] Amanda Webb: a lot of services you offer there. And even if you’re a low traffic website, you can help, you can help get them on track. And obviously if you’re a high traffic website, there’s even more you can do for them.

Usman Qureshi: Definitely. Yes. And if you have this question and you want to chat, just hit me up on LinkedIn. I’m always game.

Amanda Webb: Thanks so much. You’ve been an amazing guest. And I know that loads of people are going to be looking at their website with a little bit of trepidation now, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Thanks so much.

Usman Qureshi: Thank you for having me, Amanda, and I hope it helps someone just a little bit of optimization.